Hi Blackstone,

I'll try to respond quickly before heading to bed. A lot of your comments on my post are due to me not being careful enough about how I phrased things. I'll try to clarify:

Rainboy>> There nothing wrong with showing love and affection to a boy -- just like a brother or father would -- but if it becomes romantic, I feel that crosses the line.

Blackstone>>Romantic for whom? If it's romantic for you but not for him, then how has that crossed any line?

OK, maybe no line has been crossed with the boy. But for me, who believes that homosexual desires are not to be acted on (because that would be sinful), it would be crossing the line (if only in my mind/heart).

Rainboy>> I believe that homosexuality is inherently wrong, and not part of God's design for our lives.

Blackstone>> If it weren't part of his design for your life, why would he have allowed you to be born with it and then refused to take it away when you asked? The only two possibilities are that either it is part of his design for your life, or he is incapable of taking it away.

I'll get back to this in a moment...

Rainboy>> I don't think there is anything sinful about having homosexual or boylove desires, but what we do with those desires certainly can be sinful.

Blackstone>> A moment ago you said it was inherently wrong. So, there isn't a whole lot of internal consistency in your view. Unless you believe things can be wrong but not sinful.

I really should have stated this more carefully! Homosexuality, I believe, is "wrong" in the sense that it is sexual brokenness. Homosexual ACTS are sinful, but just having homosexual desires is not sinful (though if those desires are acted upon, either physically, or in one's heart, that becomes sin).

Rainboy>> The Bible talks about homosexuality, and seems to paint a very negative view

Blackstone>> That is incorrect. The bible never addresses homosexuality. The bible only addresses homosexual acts, not the state of being homosexual.

I should have said "homosexual acts". I just wasn't careful enough with my wording.

Rainboy>> [Some babies are born horribly disfigured by one or other birth defect, and I don't think any of us would argue that was part of His design for them.

Blackstone>> Then plainly put, you think wrong. This is part of God's design. The bible clearly tells us that nothing can happen if God does not allow it to. He allowed these things to happen. Thus, only two conclusions can one come to, either it is part of God's design or he is incapable of fixing it. I believe God can do all things, therefore these things are part of his design.

I'll try to clarify my view on this. I agree that God DOES allow babies to be born disfigured (and He IS CAPABLE of fixing them, but doesn't). IN THAT SENSE, it is part of his plan that He ALLOWS this to happen. However, I don't believe He CHOOSES for a baby to be disfigured. I don't believe He DESIGNED disfigurement. We live in a broken, sinful world. When sin entered the world, so did sickness and disease; so did rebellion against God. God, in His wisdom, chose to work in this world THROUGH all the sickness, disease and rebellion, rather than to simply take it all away. Yes, it is His design to ALLOW things like this, but I don't believe it's part of His ORIGINAL perfect design for any human babies to be born disfigured. [When we get to heaven, all sickness and disease will be destroyed. THAT reflects His true design for our lives (even though He allows the imperfect in the "here and now")]

Blackstone>> As for being a cruel God, you are being very short sighted. We live what...70, 80, 90, 100 years max in this world? Compare that to infinity. Millions and millions and millions of years we will spend in the next life. Compared to the amount of time we will spend in the next life, this life is like a drop of water in the entire ocean. If this life was all there was, then you could rightfully say that God is unjust. But there is a lot more to life than the life you are living now, and all of the struggles you will face in this life, be they the result of things you were born with or things that occurred, will in the end have been worth it.

Hopefully my clarification above makes this not an issue anymore. I agree that God is NOT CRUEL to ALLOW sickness, disease, and disfigurement -- that's all a result of the fall, and He chooses, in His wisdom, to bring about His purposes THROUGH all these things. But, I do think it would be cruel if He chose to specifically "smite" a baby with disfigurement. I just don't believe He does that, and I hope you don't either!

Rainboy>> Make sense?

Blackstone>> It makes sense, but doing even a modicum of research would prove your theory incorrect, even though it makes sense. Sorry, but having read through one book on child development and then adding anecdotal evidence from a sample composed of only one individual does not in any way lead to a well informed conclusion.

I didn't say I was proposing the ultimate answer to life, the universe, and everything. I just stated what I read and said that it made sense for me (and fit my situation). To quote: "I don't know if anyone else here can relate to his? Maybe others have very different situations, and maybe the theory doesn't always hold true ... but for me it certainly does." Maybe in other areas of the post I was a bit more dogmatic, but I didn't mean to imply I know everything about this subject. Far from it. I look forward to hearing other's opinions.

Rainboy>> If we are going to have any relationships with a boy, we must use it as an opportunity to affirm and encourage him in his development as a young man, and, hopefully, as a man of God.

Blackstone>> I agree with you on this even though I disagree with the way you reached this conclusion.

Hopefully some of the clarifications will bring us a bit closer to agreement. Sorry for the confusion.

Blackstone>> I have been in the BL community for over 10 years now. In this amount of time, I've met both in person and online dozens of BLs and their YFs. I've encountered BLs who lead celibate lives, and I've encountered those who do not. I've encountered YFs who are sexually involved with their older partner, and those who are not. I've kept up with some of these people for so long that their ex-YFs are now married and have their own family. Never once have I encountered a BL or YF whose younger lover turned gay. In the one instance where the boy was gay, it was obvious from childhood that he had always been this way.

Blackstone>> Now, of course, my sample is much too small to draw any solid conclusions from it. But added to the overwhelming amount of scientific evidence showing that sexuality is partly genetic and partly developed in the very earliest years of life (before of any of these YFs ever had a AF), I think it's safe to say that the evidence for your point of view is lacking.

I did say that biology might play a part. I also talked about childhood development, and though I didn't mention specific ages, most of that was pre-puberty. [By "very earliest years of life" what ages are you referring to?] Would you say that there can be NO sexual development during the teenage years? Maybe, by then, MOST of a boy's identity is formed, but from what I have heard (and I'm not a scientist or anything and don't have years of research behind this), teenager's brains are still developing in other areas (e.g. decision-making skills) into their 20's. It seems to me that sexual interaction during the teen years could at least have SOME impact in shaping a boy's sexual identity (especially if he has a lot of confusion about his desires to start with). As I said, we're complex creatures. It's difficult to pinpoint exactly the cause for things happening the way they do. Anyway, it makes sense to me. Everyone else can take it for what it's worth and discard what doesn't apply.

Blessings,
Rainboy