Hi, Bigcalv, you will see a thread below where Rainboy and I hashed out the spiritual legitimacy of gay-positive Christianity in great detail. We agreed to disagree and I continue to uphold my viewpoint. But I think if we are going to talk about where sin may lie in this context, we need to consider both sides of the question.

My position is that the loving sexual acts of gay couples are NOT sexual sin in any way; they are sanctified. Your distinction between them and agape is false; they are not simply expressions of the flesh but rather God's gift of intimacy to couples. The passages in the bible that have been quoted against them actually refer to surrogacy, as in "prison homosexuality", "rough trade," and other forms of same-sex exploitation by people who are by nature heterosexual.

The "fruits" (as Jesus said) of my viewpoint are loving couples living a good life. The "fruits" of your viewpoint are failed pseudo-heterosexual couples where one partner is beating him or herself up for incorrigible sinfulness, and the other is wondering why God's sacrament of marriage failed to provide a true partner. Yes, your viewpoint causes enormous damage and destruction; despite your intention to accord Jesus his full healing power, you are actually, despite your excellent intentions and your true love of Jesus Christ, an agent of misery on this earth. As are all those who propagate the same viewpoint.

When you attack God's love as expressed in gay couples, you DO attack God's love. And try to replace it with relationships built on lies and falsehoods (all those marriage partners pretending a heterosexuality they don't possess). Both actions are deeply sinful.

Empty and false promises about changes of sexual orientation don't help this situation in any way. They are sinful as well. Luring, pressuring or enticing people into marital relationships built on false premises and false hopes is an enormous moral crime. Just read these pages and see the suffering it causes.

You may continue, with your fancy biblical language, to accuse the sufferers of insufficient faith, but I don't believe it.