Christian BoyLove Forum #53073
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Your concern and your love are respected here.
What you present, though, is material that lacks some of the qualifications people would usually add if they wanted to express your point of view to a relatively knowledgeable audience. For example, you don't mention that the Leviticus quotes are part of a Mosaic Law that Christians are formally freed from, and which also includes things like the isolation of menstruating women, the banning of clothing with mixed threads, and the exclusion of people with handicaps and deformities from places of worship. In any case, those quotes, like the ones in Romans, again mention men lying with men as if with women, and though this could be taken as referring to gay sex, I still think it's much more sensible to think that it refers to surrogacy, that is, to heterosexual men using other men as a substitute or supplement for women. As I said elsewhere, this is a hard concept for North Americans to understand, but if you were in a prison or living in the Middle East, you would see that this can be a very common type of event. I recommend you read Arno Schmitt and Jehoeda Sofer's Sexuality and Eroticism Among Males in Moslem Societies (published by Haworth Press, 1992) if you want to see the types of practices that this Mosaic code is probably referring to. As many authors have pointed out, the translation you've given for 1 Cor. 6:9-10 is a completely inaccurate paraphrase. The 19th century medical term "homosexuals" is most certainly NOT an appropriate translation for the two Greek words that appear there, arsenokoitai and malakoi. On the other hand, the King James translation "sodomites and catamites" is not bad (the original words literally are "male-f..kers" and "the soft") though the terms are not very familiar. Why? It's because the terms sodomite and catamite were popular in English at a time when surrogate same-sex relations were still common (this mainly happens in societies where women are fairly unavailable, e.g., where you have to be married in order to have heterosexual sex). What this means was that randy straight guys would find the few available fellows willing to be recipients and mechanically discharge their sexual tension that way. The current English term for this type of act is "rough trade." The quotations you have cited are condemnations of rough trade. (I could write a couple of hundred words here about how this idea is consistent with the rest of the Mosaic code, which essentially bans all unnecessary sensual extras and frivolities, but I'm short of time.) The Romans passage I've already dealt with. Anyways, beyond these scriptures, your contribution here shows an extreme level of what I would call data-denial. Your "God created Adam and then made a woman" shows that you don't even wish to give credit to geology, plate tectonics and the fossil record - you take your Christianity in its very most world-divorced form. I, on the other hand, believe that God created the world in truth rather than in deception, and despite the Fall (which I think is real even though I don't take Adam and Eve literally), the entire realm of the world that meets our experience is not from end to end a series of satanic lies, but instead is God's own creation that God pronounced good. So we can have another discussion some time about whether my thoughts and experiences about evolution are flawed or not. (If they are, I am the worst of heretics, because I have published on evolution numerous times.) I think that the Lord not only allows us to evaluate our experiences, but also gives us many statements that help us to do so. For example "Thou shalt love the lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind...and thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself; on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets" -- you can evaluate your scriptural understanding in part through your conscientious experience of loving your neighbour (and God) Very importantly, "a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit." Yes, this means you really are encouraged to look at the worldly results of actions and preachings and evaluate the beliefs people follow in the light of the results you see in the world. My gay relationship of many years has brought forth nothing but good fruit, and, since I live in a big community, I know hundreds of other same-sex couples who could say the same (Christian ones... in the non-Christian couples, I often see goings-on that I find dubious). You could say that these couple pass the Jesus test for spiritual soundness. (and by the way, I am not interested in hearing the irrelevant argument, in this context, that promiscuous gays spreading HIV are the archetypical representatives of homosexuality, so don't even think about it.) The obstruction of people's loving potential is not a minor matter -- ignore this reality at your spiritual peril! Now here's another proof test for you: "Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit." 1 Corinthians 12:3 Jesus is Lord. Can you accept that I have said this by the Holy Spirit? If not, read the scripture again more carefully. |