to take your points...
(and neither am I trying to have a go...)

I do see a problem with making doctrine without scripture but you can't avoid it. Necrophilia is not mentioned in the bible but can we agree that it's sinful? Sometimes you go with your heart and sometimes with the advice of wiser or more mature Christians.

The dictionary definition of lust is in fact critical, since several people are using the word to mean different things. The "intense desire" definition is what I think Godspell is saying is not necessarily wrong. The "uncontrollable sexual desire" side of it is what others seem to see as wrong. Check the definitions everyone. There are several given in the post "Re: Based on what Scripture??? - EMPIRE 2007-11-27 02:18:46, Tuesday (1)" We should agree what we're arguing about.

You mention "sexual thought" and question whether it's automatically sinful. No it isn't. Anything passing through your mind is a thought and temptation frequently starts as a thought. It's what you do with that thought immediately afterwards that determines whether it's sinful. Do we say:
"I reject that thought as ungodly" or
"mmm - nice idea - I'll ponder that for a while..."

If you're trying for sexual purity you must "guard you mind" as St Paul says, but being guarded is no guarantee against attack. You still get the assault on the mind from the enemy, but it's only becomes sin when you fail to challenge and reject it.

"God doesn't want us to feel guilty".
Agreed, though part of the Holy Spirit's work within us is to "convict us" of sin, and for me that means starting with a pang of conscience.

"Much of our feelings of guilt is imposed by moralisers...".
No. I believe most of it comes straight from the devil. It's one of his primary weapons in making us ineffective as Christians.

"The 'oh well' ineveitability of falling is a mockery of God"
No it's not. It's because we are fallen (not falling) human beings who, no matter how hard we try, will fail. Inevitably.
If you want mockery of God, then suggest that if we try hard enough we can beat our problems. THAT'S mocking what Christ did in dying by suggesting that we somehow can pull ourselves up. We can't. Jesus did it all for us. He didn't die so that we could try to overcome things ourselves, He overcame them once and for all in one single act. It's done. Any suggestion of anything less is saying that Christ's death is not enough.

"Can't be overcome / not meant to be overcome." Oh dear dear! I can't overcome my gambling addiction, presumably then I'm not meant to and I should go and lose the wife and kids in a poker game?

You can keep fighting it yourself or you can relax, forget it until it happens, go straight to God for forgiveness afterwards and carry on in your rightful place, seated in the heavenlies. If you chose to fight it yourself, you'll never recognise your true position within Christ's body with Satan under your feet.

Just to be clear, fighting it yourself INCLUDES going to God and saying "help me to fight this". Go to God, say "I CAN'T fight this" please forgive me when I fail and remind me that my status with you is UNAFFECTED by anything I do because in His death Jesus has already dealt with it. I am and will always be a son in whom you delight and over whom You rejoice.


Hmm - rather longer than I thought. Sorry. Have fun coming back at me.

love in Christ

EMPIRE