Hey C-Matt!
Thanks again for reading and responding. I am really enjoying this “debate”, and I think it is good for me both in that I see other sides of the debate that aren’t normally brought up, as well as having me challenge and reaffirm and even change some of my beliefs. Thanks again!

Nice 3000 words! Crazy, I hope it hasn't taken up to much of your time

Haha, well I won’t lie. Today I looked pretty much like a wreck after finishing my homework in the wee hours of the morn. But don’t worry, I still thank you for this. I quite enjoyed it!

It looks like the main area of difference between us is the issue of Orientation

That seems to be just about it. I think we’ve made a lot of progress. Yet … just in case there is any vagueness left, I want to clarify one more thing:

You say We all have that urge to do something sinful, be it drinking or seeing a hot girl. I tend to believe that is a sin in it self and should be confesed to God. You tend to believe (correct me) that the intial thought is ok...its just what we do with it after.

Well, I know this is probably hard to grasp, and it might not even be a viable view, but I think orientation is even simpler than what you described (if possible). Orientation (in my view) simply directs us. On the rawest basis, when a man and a boy are placed in front of us orientation is what causes our “brain to smile” spontaneously at the boy - with nothing else happen (no thoughts … anything). I really seem to suck at explaining this, so sorry :P but orientation stops even before thoughts come into play. I quite agree with you that many thoughts have can be sinful! But somehow I perceive orientation as not even including thoughts (thoughts being defined as a conscious process).

Haha, but well, I guess we still may disagree on that idea of orientation :P that’s ok though – I still think we made a lot of progress!

But can I ask why in the world would you call the forum "Christain boy lovers?"

I believe Godspell gave quite the comprehensive answer to that, and as I have little knowledge about the history of the board, he is definitely a more qualified respondent.

But, on the topic of the topic of the self-imposed title of “boy lover”, I do have some comments:

Oh, maybe a month ago, we had a battle of the definitions regarding Pedophile, which etymologically means “lover of children”. But we were quick to conclude that often words aren’t defined by their literal meaning, but rather by the way that it is used by a group (in this case, Pedophile being quite negative). Just keep this aspect in mind for the following.

Personally, I don’t think that “boy lover” is the best title for us. Just imagine calling heterosexuals woman lovers. Haha, it seems directed towards sex doesn’t it? Many use the title Minor Attracted Adult (MAA), which probably explains things a little more. But I call myself a boy lover because in the context that it is used here, it is a wholesome description. It doesn’t refer to love in the sexual way, but rather in a more wholesome way – a way that describes an orientation. Although technically it shouldn’t, that’s how I interpret its meaning in relation to the group of people I know, so I guess it serves its purpose.

But the points that you bring up are very good. Indeed they related to the larger group of society and the views of that larger group (aka, non-blers). This shows why it was hard for you to understand some things at first. It also shows why we are generally misunderstood and shunned my larger society. The way that we use the word “love” (as you have seen) is not in the way that can be transferred to one’s like for beer (even in alcoholics. For alcoholics, it is an addiction. This is love). It is so much more than that that – it is a very pure sense of the word love (not simply sexual, not simply a desire or lust, etc). Very hard to explain, and even harder for all of society to catch on to. Too bad … how interpretations of words can create such divisions.

Anyways, I think this has been amazingly helpful, and very enjoyable! Feel free to ask any more questions! Talk to you soon!

Graces of God,
Deliverance