Hey Dakota!
Thanks for the reply! I’ve really enjoyed this conversation (and I think that even though we’ve had opposing opinions, we’ve been able to keep it professional and enjoyable. Thank you). Well, you are two days late for this post :P (that’s what you get for being away so long, hahaha) Blackstone has shown me the light that “the system” indeed does suck – so sadly you don’t get credit for that :P But, while Blackstone focused on the system and the effects on the pedophile, you have brought some good point about the effects to the kid. So, we are in agreement that the system sucks. But you had some questions from your post that I will answer for you, and I think there may be the odd detail that we still disagree upon (lol, and as a result, it’s a bit long – but hey, its fun!).

Indeed you are right in saying that we have a different view on who the really bad guys are. Now, I accept your point in saying that there is a difference between mutual touching and rape (indeed I neglected to mention that point). I guess I fall in between society and what you generalized as the mindset of pedophiles ( To the non-pedo, the really bad ones are you and I, those that have any kind of attraction to kids ). To me, sexually touching a child is really bad. Now, I can’t know that I am right, nor can society know that they are right, nor can “most pedophiles” know that they are right. Now, I guess in my case, there is really bad, and then there is really really bad (rape). This is probably part of society speaking out from me (Weber’s claim that we are socially created beings), as a few thousand years ago such touching was common place in Rome. But I think that everyone who does touch a boy ( at least in this society, as it is not accepted and will likely adversely affect his life) should be punished in some way. Now the degree of that punishment depends on the severity of the molestation – as you were saying. So, in a way we were thinking the same things, just I couldn’t get it across and we have different definitions of “really bad”.

I think that you may have interpreted my “I'd go to jail this very moment if I knew that it would prevent a boy from being raped, or even touched or manipulated in a way that will eventually adversely affect his life” Its not that I would go to jail right now, because my doing so doesn’t ensure the child’s safety that I was talking about. What I was referring to was that if a system was to be put in place that caught more rapists at the expense of the odd non-offender, I’d take it for the sake of the child. Now, you may still disagree with this. But personally I couldn’t live with myself knowing that I selfishly chose my life over a boy’s life (both being innocent victims). That is what I was referring to. I wasn’t saying that every ped should go to jail. I was just referring to a different system that might ensure more safety for kids (but not by rounding up every possible offender).

I believe many pedophiles are like that. If someone makes the mistake of being sexual with a child, and you label him as a predator and in essence punish him for the rest of his life, I believe he would be more likely to look for the only source of comfort he has left.......being sexual with kids.

This is one of the main things that Blackstone and I talked about, and I now definitely agree. The whole label system isn’t working out. And the rest about punishment is seems to be a personal preference based on values and other social influences, so who’s to say.

Good point about the definition of child porn. Personally, I think it is only with sexual things – not just plain nudism. And personally I haven’t heard of anyone who’s been convicted of Child Porn based on just nude pics without some evidence of porno pics as well. (in the cases where parents may have been charged with CP because they took a pic of their daughter in the bathtub or something like that I don’t believe that the parents were actually convicted – just given a charge that fell through in court). From my understanding, the CP laws only designate it porn if it is sexual or concentrated in the genital area (at least the laws that I know of). But in general, isn’t nude pics “porno” enough for the average BL – so in a way its porno, but technically not. And hopefully those think police don’t catch on in popularity …

Now, from what I understood of your response to my “what are the alternatives to grilling the child in a trial”, you are agreeing with #2 of my alternatives … 1) The throw the accused in jail without grilling the kid (making the system worse and creating a truly anti-pedophile system) or 2) Don’t throw the guy away unless there is evidence that proves his guiltiness that excludes grilling the kid (letting A LOT of dangerous people get away). I might have interpreted that wrongly, but from what you said wouldn’t it be very possible for a serial molester to convince a kid that the kid wanted it? Thus, if we just let it slide and don’t force the trial then this could just keep happening to more and more kids (I know sometimes there is a genuinely loving relationship that shouldn’t be prosecuted, but that goes back to my statement above that “if a system was to be put in place that caught more rapists at the expense of the odd non-offender, I’d take it for the sake of the child.” )

And I know it must be absolutely horrible for the kid to endure that. But this reminds me of a saying that I learnt in a 1st-Aid course: “Life over limb”. Now that was referring to letting a person live at the expense of possibly paralyzing him, but I think it applies here too. That is a very controversial saying the medicine, and so is it here (who is to say whether I’d rather be dead or not, etc), but I agree with it in that if having this kid testify (as hard as it will be) puts a very manipulative and dangerous rapist (who makes his victims believe in different motives) away from hurting other kids, it may just be worth it. As I said – I refuted most of the system because of Blackstone’s post (especially the offender registry), but I stick to this one. I see is as the “happy medium” that is doing its best until an idea that offers better protection not only to the child testifying, but also to potential future victims comes along.

So you think that it's inevitable that a molester will re-offend?

Most definitely not. Although, I believe it may have came across like that because of not mentioning the difference between the “really bad” and the “really really bad” that is mentioned above. No – I believe that the offender had the option whether or not to offend then and made the wrong choice, and is give the same choice now. I’d imagine the majority don’t re-offend. But, as we both agree on, temptation plays a major role. And no, we can’t take away all temptation. A any convicted molester pretty much has the option to go to the mall, or even the pool! But I think that taking away some temptation is going to help. Like for an alcoholic – it doesn’t mean that when he goes out to a restaurant none of his friends can order alcoholic drinks. It just means that he shouldn’t ask for a taste. It’s a little different, but the idea of selective reduction of temptation is still there.

I agree that the government isn’t in much of a position to make a competent choice as to just how many temptations should be taken away, but I think its better safe than sorry. Just think – for the dangerous ones that had just been released without restrictions he might go buy a house in a major child zone with the intention of enjoying the beauty, but BAM! It’s too much and he reoffends. While it may inconvenience 99 offenders who really don’t need it, it may help (not do, but help) 1 offender from reoffending. And I think that is worth it. And then if we get into the idea of judging whether someone is at risk or not, there’s always going to be those who slip through the cracks. Basically – if you molested a boy ok, don’t pay for it with the rest of your life (as the registry makes you do) but there are definitely going to be consequences because of it! And the inconvenience of not being able to live somewhere I don’t think is a major price to pay. And no, we can’t do the safe for those who rape women because there really aren’t general areas (or at least not many) where only women congregate (as there is with children – such as the many many schools).

I must admit that your reply has me scratching my head. If I had read this anywhere but here, I would have assumed the poster was a non-pedophile.

I’ll admit, they broke the mold when whey made me! Yup, I’m a weird one – but I can assure you, I am still a BLer. Compassion for the BLer?! Well, it may not come out in my post, but I definitely do (I’ll work on expressing it – Blers are great people, and anyways, such a designation isn’t important, its your actions that are important!). And I’d be slightly more hesitant to make statements like “You DEFINITELY don't have any compassion for anyone who has ever made the mistake of being at all sexual with a child” . I will take it that you meant “I definitely don’t SEEM to have …”. Lol, but I can see where such a view might have came from – its hard to argue what I just did and express my compassion at the same time in a “short” post.

Basically, a person who has been sexual with a child has made a mistake in my view. I understand that we differ on this – generally because most of those relationships will hurt the boy simply because society doesn’t except such love. As much as I hate society, it is slightly bigger than I am so I have to accept some things. That kid will be shunned for that relationship and will have a view of men that isn’t consistent with the large portion of men in society today. Thus it is damaging. Well, it was from my experience. As much as I love my cousin, because he kind of took advantage of me when I was younger I am a pretty paranoid SOB around older males. And what happened between us was really really minor, and he was only 2 years older. With a man, it would be a lot worse I’d imagine. Tainted – probably. Over caution of such relationships – not how I see it.

But, like I said before, such a mistake isn’t unforgivable. Change your ways! But because we can’t tell if they truly have changed their ways, I agree with placing them in jail for a certain amount of time and putting other restrictions on them to make sure that their ways have truly been changed and to protect children from them while they are changing. And yes, I am probably more sever towards child molesters than other criminals simply because I love the victim that they are hurting. As it is now, if a molester is caught then the kid that they were with will be put through a painful grilling – adding to just how screwed up he made that kids life. If he didn’t want to hurt the kid, he should’ve went to Russia or somewhere where the AoC is low and that such punishments aren’t around. Basically, I get mad because HE chose to hurt that child. He could’ve moved, or had a different form of relationship or something. But, fully understanding the consequences and possible outcomes of his actions, he hurt a boy – a boy that even though I don’t know, I love to pieces.

The main point I was trying to make is that "the system" in its current form often harms the child more than the actual molestation

I think I can agree with that. But see above where I discussed alternatives (at least if you are referring to the police grilling). So … we should start looking at different alternatives (as simply not getting the kid involved doesn’t seem to work from how I understood it to be described – it either lets the molester off or it sends all of them away without a fair trial). But in the mean time – as the system is already in place and the consequences to the boy (both because of society and because of the system) are apparent – I am against having that sexual relationships with a boy. The molester is the one putting the boy through the pain caused by the system and society. Like I said before – there is a choice. If you make a mistake, well you can make it right, but I will indeed have decreased compassion towards that molester because out of selfish lust he hurt a boy that I loved.

Wow – that post is REALLY REALLY long (~ 2,400 words :-D), and parts are a bit of a rant. If you ever get through it, I would love to hear a reply if you have one. Or if not, thank you very much for the dialogue. It has made me realize certain things that were previously oblivious to me. Every single conversation or debate on here that I have I definitely leave a better and more informed person. Oh, and if you think some of my opinions are based off of nothing then they probably are. I am fairly uniformed, yet still have strong opinions some how :P You guys help rid me of that! Thanks again!

Graces of God,
Deliverance